#BIM validation vs verification – who can validate and who can verify?

Enjoyed this recent discussion regarding the definition of verification and validation held on the 30.10.16 on Twitter. I have placed an ‘A’ next to author of tweet.  It appears that Graham Stewart has the final definitive word due to the use of ISO 9001.

Acronyms & Initialisms:
IM = Information Manager
CIC = Construction Industry Council
DCW = Digital Construction Week
PLQs = Plain Language Questions

Graham H Stewart ‏@StewartGH1970 19h

@CaseyRutland @markturnerBIM @DRossiter87 @KevinJFielding CIC IM states validation of data – verification can only be done by the author

Andy Boutle ‏@AndyBoutle 19h

@StewartGH1970 @CaseyRutland @markturnerBIM @DRossiter87 @KevinJFielding haven’t we got it back to front again here G?

Graham H Stewart ‏@StewartGH1970 18h

@AndyBoutle @CaseyRutland @markturnerBIM @DRossiter87 @KevinJFielding not according to discussions as last #bim4free @ShaunF1969

Emma Hooper ‏@liccle_em 17h

@StewartGH1970 @AndyBoutle correct, validation is structure of data (no subject knowledge req).Verification is actual value (knowledge req)

Pete Foster ‏@kantrellk 17h

@liccle_em @StewartGH1970 @AndyBoutle yep yep! – this is also the way its being taught at schools (my presentation at DCW was on this)

Emma Hooper ‏@liccle_em 17h

@kantrellk @StewartGH1970 @AndyBoutle at least it shows I listened to you!

John Adams ‏@Johnad25 15h Durham, England

@liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 @AndyBoutle think of a credit card. A valid card No. and expiry doesn’t mean you can verify payment.

Andy Boutle ‏@AndyBoutle 15h

@Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 nice analogy

Nick Tune ‏@nick_tune 14h Black Pill, Wales

@AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 and that is why someone independent should verify the data

Bond Bryan Digital ‏@bondbryanBIM 14h

@nick_tune @AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 Nope. An independent person can only validate. Author must verify the exact values are correct.

Nick Tune ‏@nick_tune 14h Black Pill, Wales

@bondbryanBIM @AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 actually it should be the person who set the data requirements

Nick Tune ‏@nick_tune 14h Black Pill, Wales

@bondbryanBIM @AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 but the client/agent should check to ensure teams delivered

Bond Bryan Digital ‏@bondbryanBIM 14h

@nick_tune @AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 That’s the Information Manager’s job.

Nick Tune ‏@nick_tune 14h Black Pill, Wales

@bondbryanBIM @AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 yep see my last post as well

Bond Bryan Digital ‏@bondbryanBIM 14h

@nick_tune @AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 Information Manager can be anyone and usually changes throughout project.

Nick Tune ‏@nick_tune 14h Black Pill, Wales

@bondbryanBIM @AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 I’m talking about handover verification IM should do it client check

Bond Bryan Digital ‏@bondbryanBIM 14h

@nick_tune @AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 You mean handover validation. Not possible for anyone to verify other than original author. This hasn’t changed with BIM.

Nick Tune ‏@nick_tune 14h Black Pill, Wales

@bondbryanBIM @AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 nope, set data requirements, then IM verifies, client checks

Bond Bryan Digital ‏@bondbryanBIM 14h

@nick_tune @AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 Nope. Author verifies. IM validates. Client accepts. Never ever seen a client check detailed information. That’s why they pay professionals.

Andy Boutle ‏@AndyBoutle 14h

@bondbryanBIM @nick_tune @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 Rob If the IM verifies all data they would have to be expert in all

Terry Gough ‏@drummytam69 13h

@AndyBoutle @bondbryanBIM @nick_tune @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 The IM is only validating that the PLQ’s have been answered therefore no need to be expert in all things, it’s a supporting role.pic.twitter.com/0K7roAN0Tz

Bond Bryan Digital ‏@bondbryanBIM 13h

@drummytam69 @AndyBoutle @nick_tune @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 Validates in line with information requirements, not PLQs. PLQ generates information requirements.

Terry Gough ‏@drummytam69 13h

@bondbryanBIM @AndyBoutle @nick_tune @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 Splitting hairs me thinks.

Terry Gough ‏@drummytam69 13h

@bondbryanBIM @AndyBoutle @nick_tune @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 None of the activities undertaken in the role of Information Management involve taking on design responsibility.

Emma Hooper ‏@liccle_em 12h

@drummytam69 @bondbryanBIM @AndyBoutle @nick_tune @Johnad25 @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 which is why they cannot verify data…

Emma Hooper ‏@liccle_em 12h

@drummytam69 @bondbryanBIM @AndyBoutle @nick_tune @Johnad25 @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 e.g only the architect can verify the door data values

Bond Bryan Digital ‏@bondbryanBIM 12h

@liccle_em @drummytam69 @AndyBoutle @nick_tune @Johnad25 @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 I have some visual validation checks I can perform on architects models as IM. E.g. Can check vision panel, over panel, sidelight data.

Bond Bryan Digital ‏@bondbryanBIM 12h

@liccle_em @drummytam69 @AndyBoutle @nick_tune @Johnad25 @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 Still not verification but it can check physical geometry matches data.

Emma Hooper ‏@liccle_em 12h

@bondbryanBIM @drummytam69 @AndyBoutle @nick_tune @Johnad25 @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 because you having something to compare against

Emma Hooper ‏@liccle_em 12h

@bondbryanBIM @drummytam69 @AndyBoutle @nick_tune @Johnad25 @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 what u cant do is say if that glazing is needed or not

Bond Bryan Digital‏@bondbryanBIM 12h

@liccle_em @drummytam69 @AndyBoutle @nick_tune @Johnad25 @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 Exactly. 🙂

And the final word …

Graham H Stewart ‏@StewartGH1970 18h18 hours ago

BS ISO 9001:2015 – validation activities are conducted to ensure that the resulting products and services meet the requirements for the specified application or intended use.

Graham H Stewart ‏@StewartGH1970 18h18 hours ago

BS ISO 9001:2015 – verification activities are conducted to ensure that the design and development outputs meet the input requirements

 

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